The Klavan Interview
Posted by Dirty Harry on Thursday, September 11th, 2008
National Review’s Peter Robinson has part 4 of his 5 part interview up today. He’s interviewing author/screenwriter/and my buddy Andrew Klavan about his new book Empire of Lies which I couldn’t put down and reviewed here.
Part 5 should air tomorrow.
Filed in General |
FreakyBoyon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:32 am 1Thanks DH. On your advice, bought it in Ft. Worth and read it on the train back to OKC over Labor Day.
A thoughtful and fun read.
Currently on loan to a fairly liberal friend. I am curious to get his take on it.
blainemonoon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:37 am 2Got it through your amazon link, and for straight fiction it was great, I normally read space opera but Klavan is now on my approved author list…..
abeon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:43 am 3How can somebody be an atheist and then suddenly decide that they believe?
It’s like Klavan is lying to himself–like he thinks “Religion is good for people and society, therefore I will believe.” I’m actually very sympathetic to religious folk and believe they probably are happier than the non-religious–still, once you’re an atheist and accept the logical basis for doubting God’s existence, it’s very hard to go back to faith unless you willfully delude yourself.
Willful self-delusion and Republican. Surprise surprise.
pandaxon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:53 am 4Willful self-delusion and Republican. Surprise surprise.
A condescending sneering liberal. No surprise.
Stephanieon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:57 am 5Anyone else getting tired of Abe? Can we take a vote?
Kendamaon 11 Sep 2008 at 9:16 am 6I bought his “Empire of Lies” book.
I find that I enjoy this series of interviews.
T.S.Benchon 11 Sep 2008 at 9:38 am 7…..How can somebody be an atheist and then suddenly decide that they believe? ….
The same way someone who’s religious can become an atheist, by changing their mind. Happens probably hundreds of time every day, in both directions.
….once you’re an atheist and accept the logical basis for doubting God’s existence…..
What exactly is the ‘logical basis’ for doubting God’s existence? Or, for that matter, logical proof that God does, in fact, exist. Metaphysical cosmology isn’t exactly what anyone would call a ‘hard science.’ Religious is referred to as ‘faith’, because it entails belief in many things which cannot be scientifically or logically proven. This is why Oceanography isn’t a religion.
……it’s very hard to go back to faith unless you willfully delude yourself……
Unless you think that you had previously deluded yourself and have willfully decided not to. I believe the term is ‘free will.’
…Willful self-delusion and Republican. Surprise surprise….
Since this line was the sole reason for your post, you could have saved time and dispensed with the rest. It was a long walk only to find out the store was closed.
Regards,
TSB
LarryDon 11 Sep 2008 at 10:05 am 8“……it’s very hard to go back to faith unless you willfully delude yourself…… ”
Saint Augustine
C. S. Lewis
abeon 11 Sep 2008 at 11:03 am 9“The same way someone who’s religious can become an atheist, by changing their mind. Happens probably hundreds of time every day, in both directions.”
Yes but when people go towards atheism they are largely driven by rational skepticism. When they go back towards religion it isn’t by route of that same capacity. Changing your mind because of mysticism is not the same thing as changing your mind because rational skepticism.
“What exactly is the ‘logical basis’ for doubting God’s existence? Or, for that matter, logical proof that God does, in fact, exist. Metaphysical cosmology isn’t exactly what anyone would call a ‘hard science.’ Religious is referred to as ‘faith’, because it entails belief in many things which cannot be scientifically or logically proven. This is why Oceanography isn’t a religion.”
Well you’re supposed to merely “belief” in God. The logical basis for atheism is when people stop buying that and say they will dutifully worship once presented with proof what they worship does in fact exist. A billion trillion absurd things can possibly exist outside of human observation–believing in God, to the atheist, is absurd as believing in any of those things without evidence. No, logic cannot rule out God’s existence, but it cannot rule out an infinite amount of absurd things either by the same token. This severely weakens, though does not entirely take down, any argument for God.
Once a person becomes convinced of the cogency of this this argument, going back to religion would require, if here were consistent, nothing less than the full recognition and acceptance of the flimsy foundations of religion–but since this atheist is deluding himself, he merely offers some bromides about “faith” and sidesteps the intellectual trap which he has placed himself in, because self-honestly would, for him, preclude any partaking of the communal aspects of religion–that sense of belonging and tradition which provides a perpetual high to the faithful. Perhaps self-honestly and intellectual consistency are a small price to pay for these comforts.
abeon 11 Sep 2008 at 11:06 am 10“Saint Augustine
C. S. Lewis”
Wonderful writers, I am sure–but that doesn’t mean they weren’t deluded. Isaac Newton independently discovered calculus, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t deluded in being an alchemist and a theist.
Stephanieon 11 Sep 2008 at 11:11 am 11Abe again what teh hell is a totall assjack like you who sneers at a guy who has done far more than you have doing here? WHY? I want to know little man who you are? WHO ARE YOU TO SNEER AT DH, OR ANY OF US? TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING ABE? Because if you don’t your a coward. So give p*ssy GIVE!
Audietooon 11 Sep 2008 at 12:48 pm 12Abe, I like you better as Linda. But don’t really dig her either.
Dumb_Blondeon 11 Sep 2008 at 4:55 pm 13Abe,
What color is the sky in your world? I honestly can’t imagine what kind of out of control megalomania it takes to question the authenticity of anyone’s religious convictions. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor. Steal 50 bucks from your mother’s purse, go find a hooker and get laid. We’ll all be better off.
Stephanieon 11 Sep 2008 at 4:57 pm 14LOL DB I nearly died laughing. I second that. Abe would you like us to take up a collection in case Mom spent her money on cigs and Schlitz malt liquor and Mad Dog again?
T.S.Benchon 11 Sep 2008 at 6:42 pm 15“……it’s very hard to go back to faith unless you willfully delude yourself…… ”
Saint Augustine
C. S. Lewis
——————————————
Augustine is a good example of someone who went from non-believer (he’s often called a ‘pagan’, which can be interpreted many ways) to a believer.
C.S. Lewis is an even better example, since he was a believer, lost his faith to the arguments of atheism, and then came back, first to a general belief in God, and later to Christianity and full membership in the Anglican church.
I don’t think anyone could reasonably consider either Lewis or St Augustine to be men given to self delusion.
Regards,
TSB
T.S.Benchon 11 Sep 2008 at 8:20 pm 16“Saint Augustine
C. S. Lewis”
…….Wonderful writers, I am sure–but that doesn’t mean they weren’t deluded. Isaac Newton independently discovered calculus, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t deluded in being an alchemist and a theist………..
Writers? Jackie Collins is a writer, Augustine was one of the world’s greatest philosophers and doctor of the church and Lewis a master of several literary genres, including some of the best works of apologetics ever written.
I’d be interesting in seeing what evidence you have of Augustine being delusional, and staying delusional, during the years he was grinding out theological tomes and philosophical tracts, some considered the greatest works of their kind. There has to be well over a hundred of them, so you’ll have lots of opportunity to find those delusional fingerprints.
Lewis, in his account of his conversion, Surprised by Joy, has this to say “You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.”
This description (one of my favorite paragraphs of all time, if by style alone) depicts someone mightily avoiding self delusion, not embracing it.
By the way, Lewis’ wife, Jill Gresham I believe her name was, came from a Jewish family, was an athiest, and also converted to Christianity (before she met and married Lewis). Lewis was also great friends with JJRTolkien and G.K. Chesterton who mentored his return to faith. G.K. Chesterton was supposedly disappointed that Lewis affiliated with the Anglican church, since he, as a Catholic convert, had hope Lewis would have turned to Rome.) I don’t think either Tolkien nor Chesterton has ever given to reason to suspect they were delusionals.
Of course, if you believe that religious belief, if and by itself, is evidence of delusionment, there isn’t much to discuss.
Regards,
TSB
T.S.Benchon 12 Sep 2008 at 1:41 am 17……By the way, Lewis’ wife, Jill Gresham I believe her name was….
My wife, both daughters, one son, my brother and soon, no doubt, the newspaper boy, the mailman, and random passers-by, have all reminded me that Lewis’s wife was Joy, not Jill, Gresham.
Regards,
TSB