A Final Note Before Bed: Something Everyone Should Know
Posted by Dirty Harry on Monday, October 6th, 2008
When this photo of Bill Ayers standing on our flag was taken he and Barack Obama were still working together and would continue to for another year.
Obama knew about the photo. He had to. It appeared in Chicago Magazine in August of 2001. This is the article where Ayers expresses no regrets for committing acts of terror against his own country.
Obama worked closely with this walking piece of trash. They were close associates for years. Political bloodbrothers helping one another out. The good news is that you no longer have to take my word for it. CNN says so in an investigative piece so damning that when it’s over Anderson Cooper looks like someone kicked him in his vagina.
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Jack Marinoon 06 Oct 2008 at 11:56 pm 1I would love to meet this prick Ayers in that alley, he would be intensive care forever. This coward is standing on our flag in an alley. He is a vile piece of human shit, I hope he is the reason Obama goes down.
lilbaggieon 06 Oct 2008 at 11:58 pm 2“so damning that when it’s over Anderson Cooper looks like someone kicked him in his vagina.”
ha ha! i did a spit take when i read that!
now THAT is comedy… male vagina is a more that apt description of anderson cooper…
Tommy Von 06 Oct 2008 at 11:58 pm 3And if the Democrats didn’t block the regulations on Fanny and Freddie than we would have likely avoided the financial melt-down we’re in.
This is where we go after them.
1.) Obama’s associations and his lies to cover them up.
2) It was McCain and NOT the Democrats that tried to prevent this financial crisis. The Dems did worse than nothing, they blocked the regulation that could have prevented it.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 12:05 am 4Yeah, who ever’s vagina aside; that clip’s hardly as compelling as you’re making it out to be. CNN caught Obama RED HANDED… funding… public schools. My favorite part was when they’ve got the NRO guy (who actually manages to insert mccain talking points into his sound bite) saying that he funded some “pretty extremist groups”; cut to … AFRICAN STUDIES!!!!!
Don’t get me wrong african studies and peace schools sounds like complete bullshit. But that’s a pretty flimsey thread to hang your last hopes on.
But we’ll see who’s right.
Dirty Harryon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:11 am 5Rusty, Obama lied in that debate about how well he knew Ayers. That’s the rub of the story.
It’s always the cover up. Why did he lie? ONE board? Just a guy in the neighborhood?
Total and complete lie. And lies give stories legs.
a. acaciaon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:21 am 6Ayers is about to become *infamous* once again, 30 plus years after the fact. If someone can get him - ON CAMERA - to say “I would do it all over again” or repeat his previous phrase that “we didn’t throw enough bombs” or whatever, then he will be without a doubt the gift that keeps on giving.
Problem with Ayers is that we don’t have much, if any, film footage of him actually spouting his vile rhetoric…
Unlike J. Wright.
Take a look at this segment of Hannity’s America…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7g__–BJ9I&feature=related
…and tell me if there’s not at least four of five KILLER attack ads right there in that short segment. The fact that Fox News can splice a better attack ad than the McCain camp means that somebody ain’t doing their job.
Hell, there is so much red-meat to serve up with Wright - “The US of KKK!” “God-damn America!” etc - that a romper-room chimp could bang out a Great attack ad.
The Phlegher maniac is *also* a gold mine.
All these crazy characters in Obama’s corner, and we’re *trailing* in the polls? Hard to believe, isn’t it?
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 12:24 am 7So, then you agree the story’s not about terrorism, it’s about lies.
And the lie was that he wasn’t just on the one board he was on the Woods Fund as well.
And we both agree that Obama has condemned Ayers terrorist acts.
Again it seems like a pretty flimsy thread. Then again it also seems like exactly the sort gossipy nonesense that always manages to take off in an election year.
We’ll see I guess. Although the recent rejection by the American people of Sarah Palin’s idiotic theatrics has me momentarily optimistic regarding the voting public.
Jack Marinoon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:28 am 8Tommy V, you’re right, Barney Frank, Dodd, Chuckie all should be in jail. Obama and his campaign manager have their hands all over this scandal. This thing isn’t going away and McCain and Palin MUST tell the truth how McCain tried to fix this years ago and Bush tried 17 times to have them fix this thing. This is going to bring down the Dems and Ayers is going to bring down Obama. The liberals radicals get near power the lunatics come out of the woodwork and the spotlight is on them.
Dirty Harryon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:30 am 9Rusty,
Obama is lying about his associations with an unrepentant domestic terrorist.
He’s lying on national television during a debate.
It takes an awful lot of kool-aid to drown out how troubling anyone should find that.
Who could work with someone like that for seven years? Who could even enter their home?
You? I don’t think so. But The Man Who Would Be President did and then LIED ABOUT IT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.
a. acaciaon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:38 am 10It takes an awful lot of kool-aid to drown out how troubling anyone should find that.
Or maybe it’s the absinthe, DH. Drink enough and all your troubles turn into green fairies. Ask Rusty.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 12:52 am 11@ “It takes an awful lot of kool-aid to drown out how troubling anyone should find that. ”
I sort of agree. It’s troubling that a known terrorist was able to attain status as a respected citizen. But I see the troubling part as having nothing to do with Obama.
It’s not Obama fault Ayers commited terrorist acts.
Obama’s not responsible for the investigators abusing their powers thus letting Ayers off free.
Obama didn’t force the University of Chicago to hire Ayers as a Professor. Ayers had attained respectability way before Obama showed up to the scene.
How did all this happen? I dont know but all Obama did was show up and work on education.
And Obama’s big “lie” isn’t that far off from what the CNN hit piece found. As near as anyone can tell they’ve been in the same room a dozen times. Obama was in his living room 13 years ago. The work they did together concerned education and poverty and apparently on those subjects Ayers is well respected. It’s a miscarriage of justice that he’s not in jail but I guess it’s good he’s giving back to the community (I know, I know, you guys are against communities now too j/k).
The equivalent would be if Obama/Biden started quoting from that Rolling Stone piece on campaign stops. It’s disreputable rumor mongering.
James Frazieron 07 Oct 2008 at 1:30 am 12On the other hand, Rusty, no one forced Obama to have tea parties with Ayers, either. I expect this nonsense from some lowlife Chicago politican, not the President of the United States.
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 3:30 am 13Rusty, we cannot do less. Please understand why:
We all do not have much of a record to go by. That is the problem with having a candidate who has done very little as a politician: we must judge Obama by what information we can squeeze from his speeches and off-hand remarks and past associations. What else is there?
If Obama actually had a record of being non-ideological, pragmatic, competent, centrist, bipartisan - anything, just once - then his connections would still matter. But they would not form a pattern. You would be able to say, well, this was in the past, it´s the way it is in Chicago, but this is not who he is. You cannot say that with any certainty now. Obama is not giving us anything to go by except his words. That´s why a lie matters.
What we can reliably go by is evidence of a very liberal voting record, a whole host of radical or corrupt associates (does Obama have any normal friends?), the fact that he was blindsided by the uproar over them (Wright, esp.) then was reluctant in disowning them, plus some disturbing evidence of dissembling and lying not just about Ayers but to inflate his record and grab credit for things he did not do. We also know that Obama doesn´t like to be questioned about any of this and usually he is not.
At this point Obama has promised almost anything to anybody, switching positions depending on his audience. Good luck figuring out where he really stands on energy, taxes, the economy, guns, abortion, the middle east, name the issue: there is an Obama quote to make everyone happy. On foreign policy he has sometimes stood back and then appropriated McCain´s position. He is not showing us who he is. I find this disturbing in any man who wants to lead the country. But given what we know, how can we not assume that once in office he will take the most left-wing position on everything? You may not mind the liberal politics, but are you not worried about the lack of clarity and honesty?
And the media are not really interested in doing their job. You are intellectually honest enough to know that comparable associates of McCain or Palin would be front page news for days and weeks. You may like it that way, but don´t tell me it ain´t so or that it is fair.
There are conservatives who may not vote for McCain, or at least not enthusiastically, because they think he might pull the party and the movement apart. Likewise, liberals would be well advised to think twice before they put an untested guy in the house who may well govern far to the left of the majority of people (with Pelosi breathing down his neck) and discredit his party the way Carter did - or change the country in way that few people would willingly choose.
Kiton 07 Oct 2008 at 4:10 am 14Here is a good story on Rezko.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,433624,00.html
Kiton 07 Oct 2008 at 4:12 am 15Obama makes Bill seem like a Reaganite.
wanketteon 07 Oct 2008 at 4:46 am 16I recommend you read this article, which is a sound slap at Obama’s “I was only 8 at the time” bullshit. Here’s someone who was only 9 “when Bill Ayers tried to kill me.”:
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 5:09 am 17^^^^ Well there ya go. Obama fire bombed that guy. Nice try try with your “I was only 8″ story.
wanketteon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:13 am 18That wasn’t the point, half-wit.
Oooh, today’s headline: “Barney in Fannie Probe”
Make your own!
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:26 am 19Well, Rusty, I tried to reason with you. I really tried. Now I have to destroy you.
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:27 am 20“Barney in Fannie Probe”
Now there´s a great South Park episode.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 5:29 am 21@wf
alright, alright tough guy. I’ll read your epic tome pretty soon. I just couldnt resist the cheap shot. And I Wankette, I was being sarcastic but actually don’t understand your point at all.
Moon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:30 am 22I’ll be passing along that CNN story as well.
Why this stuff hasn’t been shouted from the housetops for MONTHS is beyond me. But better late than never. This man cannot be put in charge of our country. He just cannot.
Toast And Jam « The Reluctant Optimiston 07 Oct 2008 at 5:41 am 23[…] seem to know that Iran supports terrorism so at least he is consistent. Here’s a current picture of Ayers you might find […]
Salon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:44 am 24We just got cable and I don’t watch much news on it, but I tuned into Hannity and Colmes last night, while Dick Morris was on.
I have to say: Alan Colmes is a moron.
“But, Dick, nobody was actually killed in the bombings, right?”
“No, but-”
“And the case was dropped, right?”
“On a technicality, regarding the wiretaps.”
So, that makes Ayers’ murderous undertakings OKAY, Alan?
Tell it to the Murtagh’s.
Obama either knew that associating with Ayers was a bad idea, but he did it anyway for the advancement, then tried to deny it. Or he didn’t understand why his association with a domestic terrorist would be a bad thing. Either is unacceptable in a president.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 5:47 am 25wf,
I’m only so interested in carrying water for Obama. I’m just gonna vote for him I don’t love the guy or anything. I’ve continued my proud tradition of having never donated to a major political party.
But your criticisms don’t really resonate with me. I guess I feel like I do know what Obama stands. And contrary to your summary it’s not all stuff I like. He’s waaaay past me on the issue of abortion. And he’s a gun control nut (ugh… they all are in Chicago). I think he supports hate crime legislation as well.
@ “You are intellectually honest enough to know that comparable associates of McCain or Palin would be front page news for days and weeks.”
Since we both agree I’m so awesome at logic you should know I despise this sort of reasoning. Baseless speculation into theoreticals is just about the worst way to arrive at a conclusion possible. And the partisan types are the worst with this. Constantly working themselves into some frenzy over some infraction that hasn’t happened yet but it sure would if x y and z. You’re all a bunch of Nostrodamus’, you.
Both Palin and McCain do have equivelants (Todd was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, remember? They hate America. Sarah spoke at their convention.) and they get pretty much the exact same media exposure. They’re obsessed over by the partisan pundits and the blogs and treated with kid gloves by the MSM and the candidates (at least until this week when McCain/Palin started this sorry display).
Jeremiahon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:58 am 26I’ve said it before, but to me, there are only two appropriate responses when you walk into a room, and Bill Ayers is present:
1) You leave immediately, for fear you are going to punch him
2) You do, in fact, punch him
That’s it. Sticking around in his presence demonstrates a fundemental lack of character, and associating with him is a deal breaker in terms of support for any office (let alone the Presidency).
Stephanieon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:59 am 27Heh Jack I would have to be with you…I think a stiletto shampoo up cross the forehead and then a visit with a baseball bat would be in order. And then maybe a visit from a few Devil Dogs I know that just got back from chasing bin Laden all over Afghanistan. We would show them this picture and say please by all means leave nothing left,..have at her boys!
Now look what I found on FOX News…Rezko is going cut a deal? Hmmmmmmmm….stay tuned boys n girls………
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/07/prosecutors-seek-delay-sentencing-tony-reko/
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 6:03 am 28^^^^ So in other words Stephanie, your typical hissy fit.
Mashaon 07 Oct 2008 at 6:28 am 29It’s all good, but McCain still needs to step up tonight and kick some butt. He can’t let the girl do all of his fighting. And he doesn’t have to be mean or anything, but this is his chance to get some unfiltered info out to the people.
Aslo he has to get in gear on the economy because there are enough people out there who don’t give a hoot about anything but getting a “tax cut for the middle class.” Don’t let Obama own this issue, no way!
Kiton 07 Oct 2008 at 6:35 am 30At least the slide has stopped.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
blackhawk12151on 07 Oct 2008 at 6:36 am 31Rusty
You don’t need to defend yourself to these people. Obama’s connection to an unrepentant terrorist doesn’t bother you. Fine. Just say that. Stop trying to confuse the issue and compare it to the Keating 5. Just say:
“My name is Rusty and I am not bothered by the fact that Barack Obama has connections to a domestic terrorist and lied about it. I just don’t care. I’m not intellectually honest enough to admit the fact that if a Republican candidate had the same connection I would go cross-eyed with rage. That is just the way it is. You can’t argue with me because, as an Obama supporter, I’m immune to logic and reasoning and operate solely on emotion, Bush Derangement Syndrome, and false hope for change.”
There, that was easy
Mashaon 07 Oct 2008 at 6:40 am 32A lot of people just vote for whoever supports the agenda appeals to them. That’s why feminists supported Clinton. That’s why Jews support Obama…oh wait, no I can’t really explain that one, and I’m Jewish myself. The point is, there is a contigent of people who REALLY DON’T CARE about the candidate, only what he would do in office. And sadly this means half the country wants socialism. We conservatives had to admit this and work on changing people’s minds before it’s too late.
Brooksieon 07 Oct 2008 at 6:41 am 33Excellent work, DH, thank you.
I’d like to see a McCain ad featuring all the squalid world leaders who are rooting for Obama.
Also, how about more on Obama’s promise to sign an abortion free-for-all as his first Presidential act?
dresbachon 07 Oct 2008 at 6:52 am 34My only question in this whole sordid affair is not the Obambi connection,which given hios Marxist leanings is a resume builder, and not even how Ayers could have become, let alone stay, a tenured faculty member at a major US university, but why he and his creepy wife are still breathing.
Sorry, but Steph is correct. Send some Devil Dogs to Hyde Park and put this clown out of our misery.
Stephanieon 07 Oct 2008 at 6:56 am 35Hey Rusty why don’t you go find your own blow up doll you little bottom feeding loser. Get it? Hissy fit? Damn what I would pay to see you stuck in the WTC after the second jet hit. Only a total amoral asshole like you Rusty loser would make light of someone who went out of his way to murder his own people and then says in afterwords he’d do it again. Or maybe you agree with him? Please expound. I want you to explain to everyone your issue with Ayers and his little butt buddy Obama being well butt buddys. Its a character flaw but then I am talking to someone who has no character. But please go on Wusty you apparently agree with Ayers…I think a lot of people would love to hear it…..I mean a lot of people.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oooh, today’s headline: “Barney in Fannie Probe”
Make your own!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heh……….heh………heh…..so foul and so funny!
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 6:59 am 36You know, I looked up this “bush derangment syndrome”; turns out it’s not even a real affliction. It was fabricated by the the media and fat cat washington insiders.
Mashaon 07 Oct 2008 at 7:06 am 37It makes enough people go nuts. That makes it real.
Stephanie,
Your passion deserves a better candidate. Like Palin 2012.
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 7:20 am 38Rusty, it is not “baseless speculation” about media behavior, it is an empirical observation. It has already happened. The media went to Alaska looking desperately for a scandal and they were not ashamed to trumpet the most trivial of findings: Just click here!
On the other hand they have barely reported what even the Chicago newspapers have written about Obama and the scene he moved in.
I seriously doubt that the Alaska Independence Party “hates America”. If they are even remotely comparable to black separatism or the weather underground, I would like to see evidence. But we KNOW that there is no evidence or we would have heard about it. See above. When it comes to genuine love of country, in word and deed Obama gives me some doubt whereas the Palin´s do not.
That you compare the AIP with the Weathermen shows a lack of seriousness. The only difference between Ayers/Dohrn and Timothy McVeigh is that McVeigh was a better bombmaker. Now we are told that Ayers work in education - spreading the ideology - is “atonement” for his terrorism. That´s like OJ Simpson atoning for his deeds by giving free golf lessons.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 7:53 am 39wf, I’m not comparing AIP with The Weather Underground. However Obama’s connection to the WU is that he’s knows a guy.
I am comparing AIP to the black seperatist movement. Since they’re both extremest speratists who hate America, so that’s something they have in common in my opinion.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/aip_founder_professed_hatred_f.php
Michaelon 07 Oct 2008 at 7:56 am 40Obama says that Ayers committed his crimes when Obama was only eight.
This link takes you to the story of a man who what 9 when Ayers bombed his home.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/02/when-this-man-was-9-ayers-bombed-his-home/
Lexingtonon 07 Oct 2008 at 8:21 am 41Actually, CNN says no such thing, Harry. It says they were on a few boards together, etc., etc. It’s sort of cute how much you guys want this to be true, though.
Jonnyon 07 Oct 2008 at 8:28 am 42Anyone with a shred and decency and honor can see how horribly biased the media is in this election. Problem is, for some people–sadly, most of them from my generation–decency and honor have fallen on the wayside along with responsibility, patriotism, and common sense.
It’s nothing a good old fashioned schoolyard ass whupping can’t fix. Go out, mix it up a little, and then buy them a beer afterwards. Hey, that’s how I earned my best friend in high school.
Anyway, fair is fair right? You the media say Palin deserves scrutiny because she wants to be VP. Ok fine, I agree–go after her then. What about Obama? Why isn’t he subjected to the same level of scrutiny? And this dude wants to president. Are they afraid of the race card being played? Maybe they just want to see him win, win, win? In any case, the media are not doing their jobs like they should be and deserve to be called on it.
Which reminds me of two more things missing from the wayside list above: accountability and professionalism.
Still in their hearts, decent people ultimately know the score. Yesterday at work, I suggested McCain and Palin are the true underdogs in this race. My co-worker was aghast: “They’re the underdogs when their opponent is a black man!?” Yep. Can you believe it? Then I explained Obama’s major advantage regarding the media’s undending (and unprofessional) devotion to him. About that time a black co-worker chimed in and admitted he saw it too and that maybe I had a point.
After a bit of discussion the first co-worker finally had to admit that fair is fair.
I remember there was that audible pop…the sound of a head popping out of an ass.
The guy is probably still going to vote for Obama–he’s immersed in gangsta “culture” and is a product of the Clinton times–but I’m a product of those same times, so that’s no excuse. I digress, back to the point. Point is I got him to take his blinders off for a moment to realize the smoke and mirrors illusion floating around out there.
It’s a start right?
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 8:33 am 43Rusty James typed
…..It’s not Obama fault Ayers commited terrorist acts…..
Nor was it McCain’s fault that he knew Keating, a prominent businessman who was one of his constituents. But somehow, Obama thought a relationship that ended twenty year ago was germane to the campaign.
I guess the difference is that McCain, who recused himself from the Keating meetings when he thought they were entereing into unethical terriroty, separated himself both politically and socially from Keating, who he had known as a friend for years.
Obama, on the other hand, keeps ties, both political and personal, with people with known murderous, unethical, crooked, and over-the top race baiting backgrounds, while contending those obvious ties don’t exist. Yes, it isn’t Obama’s fault that Ayers slid on a technicality and recieved a professorship, but I don’t believe there is a law requiring pols to associate with college professors, crooked businessmen, and radical men of the cloth. And, Obama obviously thinks there is something unsavory about these associations, because he feels compelled to prevaricate about them, but if he really has reputiated these people, why do the relationships endure? Obama has a obsession with not leaving a paper trail, hence the ‘present’ votes in the Senate, but blue-penciling people out of your autobiography doesn’t mean they don’t exist in your past or present.
I’m sure John Kerry thought his ‘winter soldier’ testimony was a big plus when he was running for congress in Massachusetts; running for president, not so much. Of course, Kerry, because of the filmed and printed record, couldn’t make it go away. Obama feels the same way about relationships that worked to his advantage when he was ward heeling in Chi; now, not so much. He tries to make it go away with lies, obfuscation, and the help of friendly, and/or oblivious, tools.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t maintain relationships with people I find reprehensible. God lets you pick your friends, not your relatives. I believe that ‘character’ is pertinent to the makeup of anyone running for president, and that with whom you freely chose to associate is one indication of such.
I’m sure you have a plausible explanation for this seeming dichotomy. I look forward to reading it.
Regards,
TSB
Stephanieon 07 Oct 2008 at 8:36 am 44http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_RvYAQh1Fc
This whole video just warms my heart….no really…..Barack Obama doesn’t hate whitey…nooooooooooooo…………
Dreams of My Father, merely excerpts sounds like Mein Kampf.
BigMouthFrogon 07 Oct 2008 at 8:47 am 45Bernadine Dohrn + William Ayers = 2 = “Plural” = More Than One Terrorist…
CNN Story
Bernadine Dohrn + William Ayers = 2 = plural = More than 1 terrorist
The Statement: Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin said Saturday, October 4, that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is “someone who sees…
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 8:56 am 46@ “I’m sure you have a plausible explanation for this seeming dichotomy. I look forward to reading it.”
which one now?
jrmon 07 Oct 2008 at 9:03 am 47I’m not prone to violence, but the idea of knocking Anderson Cooper to the ground and laying the boots to him does have a certain appeal to my Southie upbringing. Oh, well, so much for my evolving Catholicism. It looks like I have some more prayering to do.
Michaelon 07 Oct 2008 at 9:04 am 48Obama campaign is taking off the gloves. It vows to reveal McCain’s close association with committed communists. Will expose the fact that McCain actually lived with radical communists for six years, at their invitation, and refused to leave when asked!
Obama advisor David Axelrod is quoted as saying, “McCain’s close association with communists must be exposed!”
Notice this is submitted with tongue in cheek. I mention this for for all those libs who have no humor gene.
Stephanieon 07 Oct 2008 at 9:27 am 49JRM Anderson would probably like it…..so…you might want to amend your comment…urg…….
right hookon 07 Oct 2008 at 9:39 am 50Hello, I’m new to this blog, and really enjoy it. Forgive me for jumping in to this discussion so late, but I have found Steve Diamond’s blog a terrific resource to clarify the relationship between Obama and Ayers. His is a left leaning blog and his viewpoint differs from that of Stanley Kurtz. For any readers still puzzled by the relationship between these two men you might want to check it out. http://globallabor.blogspot.com/. Sorry if this info has already been posted many times before!
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 9:55 am 51…….@ “I’m sure you have a plausible explanation for this seeming dichotomy. I look forward to reading it.”
which one now?…..
For one, why Obama’s current relationships are meaningless, but McCain’s involvement in a 20 year old scandal, in which he was essentially exonerated, is germane.
For two, why Obama’s representation of his relationships seem to be at variance with the facts.
For three, why the fact that Obama wasn’t responsible for Ayers being a terrorist is somehow justification for an ongoing personal and political relationship. This may be more of a non-sequitor than a dichotomy.
Take your pick. Unlike dinner at the Tiki Palace, with three, you won’t get eggroll.
I know this puts you in the position of reading Obama’s mind, but if not you, who? I believe you are the one who stated “I guess I feel like I do know what Obama stands.”
Regards,
TSB
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 10:08 am 52@ “For one, why Obama’s current relationships are meaningless, but McCain’s involvement in a 20 year old scandal, in which he was essentially exonerated, is germane.”
Uh… this is something I’ve mentioned??
@ “For two, why Obama’s representation of his relationships seem to be at variance with the facts.”
In my opinion there’s not a big discrepency here. He didn’t deny knowing the guy. He denied being close with the guy. The CNN “expose” proves that they’ve met about a dozen times over a few years. It’s big trump card is “AFRICAN STUDIES”.
In my opinion it’s not much of a gotcha moment.
@ “For three, why the fact that Obama wasn’t responsible for Ayers being a terrorist is somehow justification for an ongoing personal and political relationship.”
I don’t think this is a “dichotomy” (discrepency?) or a non sequitor. It’s just an opinion you disagree with. I don’t have much of an interest in convincing you of what essentially a subjective opinion.
But I do predict that voters wont be swayed by the scandal of Obama and Ayers collaborating on African Studies. We’ll find out who is right.
Michaelon 07 Oct 2008 at 10:08 am 53Bob Bennett, hardcore democrat and chief investigator into the Keating 5 has repeatedly written and said openly that McCain was innocent of all charges in the Keating 5 scandal and that he should never have been listed with the others.
How bringing up the Keating 5 when their own democrat investigator completely cleared McCain helps democrats today is a mystery, unless, of course, the purpose is to mislead those who don’t know all of the facts into thinking something was true hen is was not.
And of course no Obamamaniac would ever consider doing that!
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 10:37 am 54Rusty, let me I quote the AIP guy for the benefit of everyone here:
“The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government… And I won’t be buried under their damn flag”
I would not get along with this guy. But without context I cannot say what to make of it. Any grumbling farmer whose land was confiscated would sound like that. Is it typical of the party? Are there more nasty quotes or is that the worst of it? Don´t forget that you are trying to create equivalence with someone who preached conspiracies and hate for three decades in church as part of a codified, racist ideology. That´s a pretty high bar.
There is no evidence that Palin agrees with this. None. Otherwise I might believe that every Democrat Senator likes the Klan.
As I said about three times now, with Obama you have a pattern, from the way he puts things to the way he voted. Otherwise it really would be guilt by association.
That pattern is just not there with Palin. She obviously does not hate America. That is why I am prejudiced in her favor, not Obama´s.
Isolating incidents and disregarding the rest - that´s for lawyers and morons. The way to sound judgement is to take into account everything you know.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 10:49 am 55@ “with Obama you have a pattern”
A pattern cobbled together by conspiracy mongers.
@ “She obviously does not hate America”
I think it’s obvious BHO doesn’t hate america
@ “someone who preached conspiracies and hate for three decades”
Volger was at it for decades.
I know everyone’s not going to see it this way but I lived in chicago for fives years. So where you see someone who cozied up to Wright I see someone who stood up to Daley.
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 10:56 am 56…..@ “For one, why Obama’s current relationships are meaningless, but McCain’s involvement in a 20 year old scandal, in which he was essentially exonerated, is germane.”
Uh… this is something I’ve mentioned?? …
As I mentioned, I was asking that because you mentioned that you knew where Obama was coming from. This may well be on of the blank spots. No problem,
@ “For two, why Obama’s representation of his relationships seem to be at variance with the facts.”
…..In my opinion there’s not a big discrepency here. He didn’t deny knowing the guy. He denied being close with the guy…..
Ummm…I consider somebody morphing from personal friend and political ally and mentor to ’some guy who sat next to me in an office” as somewhat of a big discrepancy. If I was running for office on a platform plank of ‘ban gas guzzling SUVs because they are a hazard to both the environment and economy,” you’d probably find the fact that I’ve bought a new one every two years since 1988 as a fairly large discrepancy.
The CNN “expose” proves that they’ve met about a dozen times over a few years.
Even if you actually believe they only met a dozen times, I didn’t know there was a quantitative formula for determining if someone is a friend. I get together with my best friend twice, maybe three times, a year. If I was running for office, and it turned out he was a radical bomb thrower, I’m not sure anyone would buy the ‘Thanksgiving, ball game, and summer cookout’ excuse that he wasn’t really my friend.
…..It’s big trump card is “AFRICAN STUDIES”.
In my opinion it’s not much of a gotcha moment……
Nor in mine. There are lots of ways to piss away money in pursuit of feel-good political indocrination disguised as education. Heck, my brother who graduated from Berkeley, loaded up his last year with ‘Black Studies’ courses because they were all guts which enabled him to hold down a practically full time job and actually raise his magna GPA. He was paying out-of-state tuition, and figured he was entitled to game the system. Didn’t make him a bad person in his eyes, because he didn’t tell UC to institute the curriculum.
……@ “For three, why the fact that Obama wasn’t responsible for Ayers being a terrorist is somehow justification for an ongoing personal and political relationship.”
I don’t think this is a “dichotomy” (discrepency?) or a non sequitor. It’s just an opinion you disagree with…….
No, it’s a non-sequitur, which only means that something doesn’t logically follow. I may not be responsible for Lowes selling me a defective cable, but that doesn’t mean I’m not responsible if my dog gets loose and chews your leg off.
Regards,
TSB
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 11:27 am 57@ “somebody morphing from personal friend and political ally and mentor to ’some guy who sat next to me in an office””
has this been confirmed? Where? When? By who? Everything I’ve read/heard/seen disputes this close friend, mentor, lovers story I hear at the right wing blogs. The CNN piece debunks it.
And I still don’t see the non sequitor. Their relationship is “justified” because it was about working on education. That doesn’t require too much justification in my opinion.
NPR has done some fact check of their own. Unlike the CNN piece they actually talk to people who were there, and contact the Obama’s campaign… you know, like a real fact checker.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902
The article also mentions that far from the radical terrorist cell you’ve made it out to be, the Annenberg Challenge was a well respected bipartisan effort.
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 12:17 pm 58@ “somebody morphing from personal friend and political ally and mentor to ’some guy who sat next to me in an office””
has this been confirmed?
Yes, and by BHO before he realized that Ayers, like Wright, had to become a non-person. But, let’s be clear here. There will never be enough evidence to convince you, because you don’t want to be. And that’s perfectly legimate. Obama could have Ayers love child (figuratively speaking, and you’d chaulk it up to the the influence of alcohol on politics,
……The CNN piece debunks it…..
I don’t believe I’ve ever shown any confidence in, or reference to, CNN (except in passing response to the African studies stuff.) I wouldn’t believe CNN if they told me my house was on fire.
…..Their relationship is “justified” because it was about working on education. That doesn’t require too much justification in my opinion…….
Oh, I get it now. Obama is exempt from the rules of free association and discretion because it was ‘for the children’, the one bulletproof “ends justifies the means” application. Of course, Obama was helpless in deciding who helped run the program, even if it included a radical bomb thrower. So much for leadership, huh?
……NPR has done some fact check of their own……
Yeah, that’s an unbiased source. Unlike CNN, I wouldn’t believe them if they told me my house was on fire if I was standing in the middle of the smouldering wreckage.
……The article also mentions that far from the radical terrorist cell you’ve made it out to be, the Annenberg Challenge was a well respected bipartisan effort……
I thing you have me confused with someone else. If you can point out where I said the Annenberg Challenge was a radical terrorist cell (or cell, or terrorist, or anything but agenda driven) of any kind, I’d be glad to eat my keyboard.
My position is that Ayers is a unrepentent domestic terrorist.
Now, Ayers also holds that position, so if you don’t believe me, why won’t you believe him?
Regards,
TSB
blackhawk12151on 07 Oct 2008 at 12:19 pm 59The Annenberg Challenge was not a well respected bipartisan effort.
It was an effort to inject leftist radicalism into school curriculums but did nothing more than piss away between $100 million to $160 million with no improvements to any schools.
But come to think of it, pissing away huge amounts of money is what the government does best so maybe Obama is qualified to be President.
wfon 07 Oct 2008 at 1:43 pm 60Rusty James - Obama stood up to Daley? When? How?
This better be impressive.
Because I did wonder at some point - if Chicago is such a vale of tears as Michelle Obama (daughter of a Democrat ward heeler) is always saying, then why the heck doesn´t the liberal ruling class blame itself? The reason why it never sinks in that their assumptions and politics are not working is because they themselves are doing so well and they never run out of people to take care of with other people´s money.
whiskeyon 07 Oct 2008 at 1:56 pm 61Rusty — Ayers is significant because he cuts to a pattern of Obama getting money from, and giving money to, extreme anti-American, White hating radicals.
Ayers.
Wright (who got 20K from Obama, personally, plus earmarks worth millions for Trinity).
Father Eminem — who got earmarks worth millions.
None of whom were condemned. Obama said he could no more condemn Wright and God Damn America than his own grandmother or the Black Community.
Ayers funneled money to schools for extremist, “hate Whitey” stuff instead of Math and Science, which were vetoed every time. He and Obama worked together constantly to have child murderers in Juvie and released early. So they could kill again.
Ayers and Obama agreed — prison is wrong for criminals and they should be “rehabilitated.”
That’s a pattern and practice of hard-left, America hating, extremist positions, and associations, going back Obama’s entire career. The best things for Dems would be to lose this election, back a centrist like Hillary, win in 2012, govern centrist-like.
Let me add — a long Depression means Affirmative Action and soft-on-crime collides direct with an angry, out of work White populace wanting criminals locked up or dead, and jobs for them not minorities in their stead. Whites still make up about 75% of the population, so that’s a huge risk for Dems — being seen as the anti-White, radical Leftist-minority grievance party.
Rev. God Damn America, KKK of A AND his congregation that ate that up has already done damage. Do you want more?
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 4:29 pm 62@ “But, let’s be clear here. There will never be enough evidence to convince you, because you don’t want to be.”
No, lets be clear hear. If you’ve got evidence put it up. That’s how you play the game.
@ “Unlike CNN, I wouldn’t believe them if they told me my house was on fire if I was standing in the middle of the smouldering wreckage.”
Uh huh. So in other words: you are the one beyond evidence. The thing about good fact checking is that you that you don’t have to believe them. They site they’re sources. They don’t just say “far left extremist groups”… cut to AFRICAN STUDIES.
What is specifically the problem with their methodology and what source is better?
@ “If you can point out where I said the Annenberg Challenge was a radical terrorist cell (or cell, or terrorist, or anything but agenda driven) of any kind, I’d be glad to eat my keyboard.”
I wasn’t being literal. I was saying the group is not as you guys have been characterizing it. I wasnt necessarily directing that at you specifically.
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 4:29 pm 63@ “The best things for Dems would be to lose this election, back a centrist like Hillary, win in 2012, govern centrist-like.”
Listening to the right back track on HRC on this site has been hi-larious. “Turns out we’ve been a little over dramatic for the past 16 years. Ooopsie”.
Didn’t Hillary Clinton’s husband pardon a member of the Weathermen?
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:03 pm 64….@ “If you can point out where I said the Annenberg Challenge was a radical terrorist cell (or cell, or terrorist, or anything but agenda driven) of any kind, I’d be glad to eat my keyboard.”
I wasn’t being literal. I was saying the group is not as you guys have been characterizing it. I wasnt necessarily directing that at you specifically…..
Oh, I get it. you didn’t mean me when you said me, you meant some other collective me who was standing in for me as a surrogate me.
Rusty, I’m not Stephanie, so don’t try running those strawmen by me and expect me to bite.
But I think I’ll just put it in perspective by asking a simple yes or no question. If John McCain’s political career was kicked off by, and he continued to voluntarily serve for years with, an unrepentant Ku Kluxer who had spent his active duty activist time dynamiting black churches, escaped punishment by rigging a jury, and who now states that his only regret is that he didn’t have more explosives, do you think the media would think that this didn’t reflect seriously on his character and judgment? Let’s have a show of hands of those who think McCain would have gotten a pass like BHO?….anyone…anyone… umm..not even you Rusty?
So, we have something in common. We both think it would reflect badly on McCain. I can only guess why you wouldn’t think the same about Obama. Obviously, it’s not politics
Regards,
TSB
Rusty Jameson 07 Oct 2008 at 5:28 pm 65@ “If John McCain’s political career was kicked off by, and he continued to voluntarily serve for years with, an unrepentant Ku Kluxer”
JSM has been serving with such a character in the senate for the past few decades.
T.S.Benchon 07 Oct 2008 at 5:37 pm 66@ “If John McCain’s political career was kicked off by, and he continued to voluntarily serve for years with, an unrepentant Ku Kluxer”
JSM has been serving with such a character in the senate for the past few decades.
Actually, RB is a repentant Ku Kluxer.
Regards,
TSB
wfon 08 Oct 2008 at 2:23 am 67Rusty, you´re an idiot. People try to debate and you throw out crap like this:
“JSM has been serving with (a Kluxer) in the senate for the past few decades.”
I assume you are referring to Obama´s fellow Democrat Robert Byrd? What the hell does McCain have to do with him? Is McCain in a position throw Robert Byrd out of the Senate?
You cannot answer the charge that BHO is a radical. If he is not, then why has he been endorsed by every fringe lunatic in the country and abroad? They know who he is. And so do we.
You can just change the subject. You are a waste of time.
What can I say? Here´s a poem:
Stephanie
in her inimitable way
had your number
right away.
Rusty Jameson 08 Oct 2008 at 3:44 am 68Honestly dude, I’m having trouble telling y’all apart (which ones Stephanie now?). So if I was supposed to be disputing the charge that BHO is a radical I’m afraid it got lost in the mix of the four other guys I’m supposed to be debating.
Maybe the answer to your thing was in the other comment where the guy said I confused him with Stephanie or something.