‘Slate’ on ‘Red Dawn’: The Enemy Is Us
Posted by Dirty Harry on Thursday, October 9th, 2008
al-Qaeda?
Maybe one of the first things President Obama can pass is a national broadcast signal to alert us as to when exactly it will be okay to question the left’s patriotism.
But on re-viewing, Red Dawn isn’t a stark reminder of Cold War fears. Rather, it’s a pretty good movie about Iraq, with the United States in the role of the Soviets and the insurgents in the role of the Wolverines. In Red Dawn, the Soviets have invaded a country whose customs they know not—one of the only funny moments in the film is the Commies’ inability to understand the Wolverines’ connection to high-school football. They ham-handedly toss leading citizens into hellish prisons. They maltreat the civilian population. They appropriate private and government buildings for themselves. They replace local commerce with their own[.]
The energy required to suffocate ones intellect to the point where they can write such a thing can only be fueled by hate. To even begin to present the counter-argument feels as futile as explaining calculus to gerbil — too far gone to even bother — another species.
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Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 8:48 am 1Holy $%&#!
I am SHOCKED!!!
I cannot believe that Hollywood would do something like this!
This is just unprecedented!
mrsideouson 09 Oct 2008 at 9:03 am 2their hate and ignorance is their own punishment, I guess. spiraling down in ever closer rings into the darkness.
the trick is to not to let them take us along.
Brian Hineson 09 Oct 2008 at 9:06 am 3You know, I watched Red Dawn over a few months back and it was quite obvious that the left would use the analogy as a monologue on Iraq. I couldn’t figure out which American was the one killing his own people or letting terrorists camps operate in the northern section of his country or decided they would deny 17 UN resolutions on the way to trying to build WMD. It might have been the teacher in the first scene that was shot to hell, but I’m not sure. The other part I missed is where the invading soldiers helped train the American “prisoners” in hopes that they could defend and patrol their own cities and government because they had been so beaten down so long and weren’t trained themselves. I also didn’t see the invading troops and the Americans working together to remove fundamentalist Canadians who were bent on fermenting the situation to create a loss for the Russians.
And I didn’t mind presenting the counterargument. I’ve worked with the mentally handicapped before. “Here, sucker, sucker, sucker.”
Davidon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:18 am 4The Americans in Red Dawn do not summarily execute the population or operate rape rooms. But more than that, the Wolverines DO NOT TARGET CIVILIANS in the film, only the Russian/Cuban military. The Iraqi “insurgents” have killed far more Iraqis in their bid to cause chaos and ethnic strife so as to tangle the occupation forces than they have American soldiers.
Using guerilla tactics to wage a war against military targets versus using them to kill civilians… that’s the difference between a military unit(the Wolverines), and terrorists(Iraqi “insurgents”). And it’s a big difference, liberals.
Christian Totoon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:23 am 5But the Left doesn’t hate America … it just warps material beyond all recognition to mock and belittle and trash the country.
Just tough love, is all …
PerfectTommyon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:30 am 6This has really opened my eyes to viewing films in a new way.
In Casablanca - Rick is Osama Bin-Ladin and Strasser is John McCain. The Great Escape takes place in Guantanamo Bay. Malificent in Sleeping Beauty is Sarah Palin. Thanks for the insight, Slate.
Mr24pon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:35 am 7The author of that article is just an ignorant buffoon. Someone who has no knowledge of other countries nor does he know history. His only option is to look at something through the prism of what is going on right at this very second and through his rainbow colored groovy hippie glasses. I find this with a lot on people on the left. That is why they are constantly trying to rewrite history. Afterall, we were a country founded by slave owners and we raped this land for all it’s worth. So they keep trying to teach our kids.
Sawbuckon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:37 am 8I read this piece yesterday and honestly couldn’t bring myself to comment - It must be tough for old Poindexter there waiting all these years for his testicles to drop.
Man up for the love of God!
The soundtrack from the remake will be crickets chirping in empty theaters.
Stephanieon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:42 am 9I want to kick this guys ass. Please let me? You fing AlQueda? What about the Son’s of Liberty? Because thats what people like this are gonna get.
EPorvaznikon 09 Oct 2008 at 9:59 am 10Pathetic desperation, thy name is quite obviously David Plotz. Would it be wrong to tie that boy down all Clockwork Orange style to watch Stallone and Schwarzenegger movies from the 80s (and Die Hard, natch), all with carnage-counter features added a la Red Dawn’s Special Edition DVD?
JohnFNWayneon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:02 am 11How do we keep losing to people with this lazy of an intellect?
NeoConJedion 09 Oct 2008 at 10:08 am 12It’s just another example of how the left has failed to understand the Iraq War.
I get tired of saying it, but they are either traitors or complete idiots … either way, they’re filth.
Be against the war all you want, but be educated about it. Otherwise, you’re just aiding this country’s enemies.
And Red Dawn gets better with each viewing. I remember the day I went to see it in the theater on opening weekend with my dad and a friend. I was only in fourth grade, but I loved it.
Shawn Streeton 09 Oct 2008 at 10:19 am 13This is by far one of my favorite movies of all time. I was around 10 when it came out and me and my friends would play war in the woods behind the house, pretending that we were the kids in Red Dawn. Except we were Dragons instead of Wolverines. Who knew were the training to be terrorists in Iraq?
Mighty Skipon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:31 am 14Another day, another idiot.
Johnny Ed's Babyon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:31 am 15I am sure any writer at Slate can look at any war movie and put the United States in the role of the bad guys.
War and Peace - George Bush is Napoleon trying to spread his evil democracy onto the enlightened Russians and got his hat handed to him for going too far.
Lawrence of Arabia - Barack is T.E. Lawrence and the Americans are the evil Turks trying to put down those peace loving Arabs.
And of course Gone With the Wind where the Union soldiers are the Democrats and the Republicans will be playing the part of the Confederates.
David123456on 09 Oct 2008 at 10:44 am 16You people just don’t get it. The libturds lumping everything into the same category without any distinctions (in this case Al Qaida and the Wolverines) is a sign of their deep “nuance”. Just like the Founding Fathers were terrorists, evangelical christians are equal to Al Qaida, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, etc. etc. It’s NUANCE, people!
JimmyCon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:49 am 17Ah, our old friend moral equivalency strikes again.
Let me put it in very simple terms, so that even a writer for Slate can understand it: it’s not how you fight, it’s what you’re fighting for. The kids in Red Dawn were fighting for freedom from oppression. The insurgents in Iraq are fighting for Saddam’s Islamo-fascist oppression to be brought back in Iraq.
Evan Sayet had it right when he said that the modern liberal “can no longer tell the difference between freedom and having your head hacked off.”
the bookkeeperon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:53 am 18NUANCE?? Gee, I just thought it was the media’s regular 24/7 reprogramming. Plotz is a fing asshole.
Maryon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:55 am 19I just heard Kevin Bacon is trying to develop a new TV series. Get this: It’s about a handsome actor from a famous celebrity family who becomes so passionate about his country, he decides to act against the tyrannical (yet also monkey-like) Republican president and his evil administration.
And I’m actually excited to see it!
Yep, it’ll be called The Booths, and it’ll center around the three brothers. I don’t know, I’ve always kind of had a thing for Edwin.
(That description, btw, was my own tongue-in-cheek interpretation, not the show’s.)
Capt. Nemoon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:57 am 20The reviewer is just plain wrong.
If you want the movie to be compared to the Iraq war, you need to make a few changes to the movie.
First, the Americans would welcome the Soviets with open arms. And topple a statue of Lincoln and dance on it.
Two, insurgents from Canada, England, Austrialia would need to sneek across the Canadian border and infiltrate American society. And blow up Americans, with no concern for their safety.
Three, The Canadians would have to provide the IED\’s that the insurgents would use. While the prime minister, calls for Alaska to be wiped off the map.
And Four, the Soviets would be under pressure from Pravda to get the job done. All the while Pravda would accuse the soldiers of raping women and blowing up bodies. They don\’t want another Afganistan, right?
Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 11:02 am 21There is only one similarity between the Wolverines and the Iraqi terrorists:
Neither were in uniform and therefore did not fall under the Geneva Convention.
oh, and Johnny Ed’s Baby, your absolutely wrong! In Gone With The Wind the Union soldiers are the evil REPUBLICANS and the Confederates are the noble Democrats/Al-Qaeda.
You had it reverse.
Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 11:03 am 22There is only one similarity between the Wolverines and the Iraqi terrorists:
Neither were in uniform and therefore did not fall under the Geneva Convention.
oh, and Johnny Ed’s Baby, your absolutely wrong! In Gone With The Wind the Union soldiers are the evil REPUBLICANS and the Confederates are the noble Democrats/Al-Qaeda.
You had it reverse.
Ya-ya!
$%&# You Word Press!
Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 11:03 am 23Sorry about the repeat, I was having trouble with the Word Press.
Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 11:05 am 24Capt. Nemo,
Brilliant summary!
Maryon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:06 am 25Guh, stupid spam filter. Was it because I mentioned Kevin Bacon? It was, wasn’t it?
Capt. Nemoon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:15 am 26By the way, in this same universe, Pravda would have called Battleship: Potemkin a sickening display of hyper-patriotism.
Glennon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:22 am 27What the world needs is a well-financed film that is a “re-imagining” of Red Dawn. I’m not talking about a re-make, but rather a film with a similar theme, written for this century.
In the story I have in mind (this is just a micro-summary from a more detailed treatment) the US military is nearly totally destroyed by a sneak attack using nukes smuggled onto our bases. The civilian population is left completely in the dark - until China invades the west coast (on a “humanitarian mission,” of course). Russia invades from the east, and both nations impose fast totalitarian rule. Americans are shocked and confused when they find officers from France, Germany, and England participating. The idea is to subdivide America and turn it into a group of economic colonies, subjugated under the rule of a global government.
This is hardly original, but what happens next is somewhat similar to Red Dawn, only with much older partisans: some citizens joins the remnants of the US Marines to fight the Chinese troops. They are not really “partisans” but actual sworn-in Marines. These new Marines, some teenagers, some middle aged, were once Southern California residents sporting “War Is Not the Answer” bumper stickers.
I met a former Taiwanees artillery officer not two weeks ago, and we spoke of this scenario. He loved it. He agreed that Americans have no idea of the power and capabilities of the regular Chinese Army (the largest in the world, over 2 million ACTIVE duty) or of the global ambitions of China. The Chinese troops are well-trained and well-equiped (not peasants with rifles, as may be imagined by many Americans) and the Chinese Army has one of the highest percentages of elite troops of any nation.
Now THAT would make a movie. That is one of the movies I dream of making some day -
David123456on 09 Oct 2008 at 11:27 am 28>>>Rather, it’s a pretty good movie about Iraq, with the United States in the role of the Soviets and the insurgents in the role of the Wolverines.
So basically what we’ve been saying all along is true– Liberals DO want us to lose in Iraq.
Capt. Nemoon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:47 am 29I want to give the late Ron O\’neal a shout out. His career never escaped Super-Fly. And I\’m sure in the late 90\’s he probably hung around the phone waiting for Quentin Tarentino to give him a call.
But Red Dawn showed he had talent. And showed he was willing to go all the way to give a great performance. His performance as a revoluntionary-who-idealism-is-shattered-because-he-now-realizes-he\’s-the-oppressor was great. He learned Russian and Spanish to give his performance the heft it needed to be believable.
Good Stuff, Ron.
ArchiCrashon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:57 am 30Gotta agree with the bookeeper. Liberals claim to love nuance, but they display a very limited–dare we say selective–understanding of it.
whiskeyon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:58 am 31First of all, this sort of cultural drift took place all over the Western world. It’s tempting to blame JUST Hollywood, or Marxists, or whatever, but I don’t think a global phenomena in the West can be explained that way.
Rather, the explosion of single motherhood through choice or divorce, tremendous wealth, no real struggles, and dislocated isolation in very mobile and distrustful societies (result of diversity) created an atmosphere of huge dislike of ALL of the West’s traditions: religion, patriotism, the military, etc.
That young woman in Frank Luntz’s focus group, noting that McCain spoke about Vietnam and duty, honor, country, responding that it was “boring” and did not speak to her needs was telling. Young people don’t know history or American traditions because they don’t want to know — the result of single mother families and urban isolation.
A Red Dawn remade would be EXACTLY like the review above because the self-hatred of single mother children, alone, isolated and lonely amidst plenty ALWAYS produces that sort of attitude.
Cromon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:59 am 32Hey Harry - any chance you can get Milius to respond to this? I imagine he is chambering a round as we speak…
Stephanieon 09 Oct 2008 at 12:08 pm 33ANd there is our resident woman hater Whiskey blaming women for his woes again.
Glennon 09 Oct 2008 at 12:22 pm 34Whisk: nail on head, man.
These sorts of people are well-served by the fare that Hollywood keeps churning out, where the bad-guys are always white, Christian male capitalists and the heroes always an “oppressed group” that The Man has been keepin’ down.
There are millions of potential movie-goers who are not being served. That’s one of the founding postulates of Liberats and DHP. A “real” Red Dawn re-imagining would get those folks into theaters. Or not.
In the first act of my story, a spoiled So Cal family is launched into a state of shock when they lose EVERYTHING: the cable, the internet, gasoline, radio, cell phone service . . . the local super-duper-markets are stripped bare of organic produce and soon even the Chef Boyardee is gone. And there are no delivery trucks coming. No one has any real news. Gang-bangers invade the neighborhood and fathers stand by helpless as homes are destroyed and women raped. They never believed in having a gun in the house.
I think such a contrarian tale would be well received. I could be wrong.
Johnny Ed's Babyon 09 Oct 2008 at 12:27 pm 35Kit:
My mistake. I forgot GWTW was written from the south’s perspective and the Confederacy was the good side.
I know people from Georgia that still think Sherman was the devil.
wfon 09 Oct 2008 at 12:38 pm 36Right now there are tens of thousands of Americans in Iraq who have a better understanding of the country than anyone at Slate.
Fr. Joeon 09 Oct 2008 at 12:39 pm 37One of my all time favorite movies. What kind of disordered wacko will attempt to make Red Dawn into an analogy for Iraq?
Growltigeron 09 Oct 2008 at 12:46 pm 38For an interesting contrast, re-watch “Mars Attacks”, a delicious send-up of the kind of naive peaceniks who have the capacity of equating “Red Dawn” with Iraq.
Where were they when America was bombing the snot out of the Serbians from 25000 feet? Because Bill Clinton was at the helm of the bombing, we didn’t hear or read about any Serbian women, children and/or innocents killed. They were expendable.
This is not to say bombing the snot out of the Serbs wasn’t the right thing to do, only that Hollywood and other propagandists don’t give a damn who dies when it is THEIR president ordering the bombing.
David123456on 09 Oct 2008 at 12:51 pm 39stephanie,
I love women, but Whiskey has a point. The more our society is “feminized”, the more leftward it drifts. It’s a general societal shift towards dependency on the State because fathers/husbands/providers are no longer part of the picture and have been replaced by the Liberal nanny state. The Left wanted to destroy the “Patriarchy”, they’re succeeding beyond their wildest dreams. This is what the death of the “patriarchy” looks like– single moms dependent on the STATE for their survival.
whiskeyon 09 Oct 2008 at 1:18 pm 40Stephanie — the problem is not women. It is single mothers by choice or divorce as the standard for raising kids.
Playing the percentages, when you have most kids being raised by single mothers, at worst you get the Black Community, at best the sort of spoiled yuppie consumerist status-mongers always competing in a mating dance that NEVER ends.
In 1965 Marvin Gaye was singing soulful, respectful songs about romantic longing for women. That could have been sung by Bing Crosby or a Medieval Troubador. In 2005 Rap compares women to pieces of meat. Don’t think this process just magically stayed in South Central.
You can’t destroy the nuclear family and not expect a self-hatred of your entire society. Men and women need to be mostly married to each other, otherwise your Brave New World looks like Cuba or Venezuela or Obama’s America. With Red Dawn remade with the US as bad guys.
EPorvaznikon 09 Oct 2008 at 1:43 pm 41>>What kind of disordered wacko will attempt to make Red Dawn into an analogy for Iraq?>>
There are many answers, but I’ll throw in someone who isn’t old enough to have lived through the Cold War. Even though I admittedly just remember its waning years (RIP and thank you, President Reagan), there was something palpable about it that today’s generation can’t quite grasp. You’d think after 9/11 they could or would, but obviously not this writer.
Now, with a paternally inspired “Godammitsunuvabitchshit!!!!” I will ready my fist to start shaking from the porch when I get home later.
Joe Weldonon 09 Oct 2008 at 2:27 pm 42Red Dawn is, and always will be a classic. But leftists will never take that sitting down.
The left will say ANYTHING to destroy conservatism, Republicans, and the legacy of George W. Bush, just as they were attempting it even before 9/11, to paint him as a dunce who stumbled into the White House by stealing an election.
With Democrats and the left, POWER comes first, everything else second.
They know the power of the revision of history - Reagan didn’t win the Cold War, Clinton was beloved as one of our greatest Presidents, Bush lied about WMD’s ( in spite of Clinton and Gore warning us about Saddam Hussein and his WMD’s throughout the ’90’s), etc.
Leftists have a scorched-earth policy with conservatism - EVERYTHING about conservatism is wrong, evil, and a failure. No exceptions.
I wish Republicans adapted a similiar strategy.
NEVER GIVE THE LEFT AN INCH. NEVER NEVER NEVER.
Man-made global warming is a hoax, and a power grab.
Democrats are responsible for the economic meltdown we’re going through right now.
Barack Obama is a closet communist. And worse, possibly a Bill Ayers vehicle for radical policy changes in this country - if he wins the election.
The Iraq War was justified and long overdue. Iraq would NEVER have become a free nation any other way.
Bush liberated over 50 million Muslims in his first term - and refused to abandon them in his second - despite fierce attacks by the Democrat leadership and the left to do so.
The Middle East will experience profound changes toward freedom and democracy because of what Bush did, for our future, and the future of the human race.
Looking Glasson 09 Oct 2008 at 6:48 pm 43whiskey wrote,
“A mother who remembers her first kiss has a daughter who can’t remember her first husband.”
As for the feminization of the media. I started watching TV again recently after a few years without. Wow. Just wow.
Whiskey’s description of network TV as “a female and gay ghetto” is spot on. I can’t make myself watch it. In many ways the commercials are the worst part, because they jam them in no matter what you’re watching. The all sports channels help, but still aren’t immune.
Interestingly, my cable provider recently advertised that they would make commercials for interested advertisers, using their own in-house team. Those commercials have come on line recently and it’s night and day difference with the usual Madison Avenue techniques. No silly skits. Focus on the product. No one gets ridiculed.
Jack Marinoon 09 Oct 2008 at 7:29 pm 44Forget these remakes why watch something we already saw. We all know in our hearts that they are going to screw it up. You guys want to support a pro-American film, then buy FORGOTTEN HEROES my independent film. We all talk about supporting conservative filmmakers, well I am here and nothing is moving.
Forgotten Heroes is ‘Objective Burma meets Kelly’s Heroes. Its not a great film, i made it on fumes, but like a local wine it’s not bad. My film is about a Russian General, played by William Smith (Falconetti) who is seeking freedom during the Vietnam War. These Americans go in and bring him out and Russian Troops are sent in. The film is shot in an impressinistic style like those old WWII films with no F-words in it. Its a good old fashion war film like they use to make at Warners.
This is exactly the kind of unknown independent pro Veteran, Pro American war film made by a filmmaker with conservative values. This is an original idea and not a remake. My film was shut out by the industry and I can write a book on who I met, who I know, who saw my film and how many times. Its a 20 year struggle to get this film out to you guys and all you have to do is go to my site
www.forgottenheroesthemovie.com and support a conservative filmmaker and get his film known instead of letting Hollywood destroy a great film directed by John Milius starring WILLIAM SMITH who plays a Russian Officer in both films, RED DAWN & FORGOTTEN HEROES.
There isn’t too many guys like me with real films on film that are pro American and ready to be shipped to you. SUPPORT you local conservative filmmaker who blogs here everyday. Lets sell hundreds of DVD of FORGOTTEN HEROES before they make it illegal to make pro Vet films.
Kiton 09 Oct 2008 at 7:32 pm 45Mr. Marino,
I’ve seen the trailer, it looks GREAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktk5J_n3OSA#
Is that really it?
Bloody Samon 09 Oct 2008 at 10:21 pm 46Milius has said before in interviews that Red Dawn isn’t really about Communism, but about Gun Control, and that that’s the reason why so many Libs hated it, and why he didn’t direct another feature for five years after Red Dawn had been a modest hit at the box office.
Speaking of Gun Control Cinema, I watched Unforgiven again a few days ago, with the commentary by Richard Schickel, who pointed out something about the film that I’d realized before but never given a lot of thought to: It’s a movie about, among other things, the violence inherent in efforts at social control, i.e. the gun-grabbing Sheriff who metes out his own individualized sense of justice based on expediency instead of any kind of morality.
I know a few Libs who love this film because they see it as a cautionary tale about their beloved Cycle Of Violence (which it is not), the Futility Of Violence, etc., but I think they may have missed the anti-Gun Control theme; I know I pretty much did. This was the last great Eastwood picture, I don’t care what anyone else has to say about it.
Jack Marinoon 09 Oct 2008 at 11:06 pm 47Kit,
That was the trailer I had made by a guy that cut trailers for Disney back in 92. I recently did a teaser which is more contemporary in style. I have them both on you tube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/jackma152
check out http://www.myspace.com/forgottenheroesthemovie
read some reviews and the letter I got from President Bush about my film
By the way gang I am donating $5.00 from each DVD sale to THE AMERICAN VETERANS DISABLED FOR LIFE MEMORIAL FUND so when you buy my film 25% of the sale will go to help our disabled Vets. I wonder if Oliver Stone gave 25% of his sales of Platoon to any Vietnam Vets.
Buy FORGOTTEN HEROES you will be helping the Vets and one conservative filmmaker that has been blackballed by the industry for over 20 years I am writing this long epic for my web site so you can understand what is really going on out there in the real world of Hollywood when it comes to unknown filmmakers that you never hear of.