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Veterans Day Open Thread

Posted by Dirty Harry on Tuesday, November 11th, 2008

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53 Responses to “Veterans Day Open Thread”

TROon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:04 am 1

I’m watching We Were Soldiers today. Another great patriotic military film.
steevyon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:13 am 2

God bless those who defend our freedoms.
Dougon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:17 am 3

I was disappointed with “The Patriot”. Should have been called, “The Vendetta,” because Mel Gibson’s character wasn’t a patriot. The scene of British soldiers torching a church with civilians in it was so over the top, I haven’t been able to watch the film again.

A made for TV movie that I enjoy, which could have been called “The Patriot” but is called “The Crossing,” has Jeff Daniels playing a young, frustrated George Washington crossing the Delaware and leading a tiny army to a tiny victory, which fanned the flames of freedom when they were about to be extinguished. I watch that, and it’s amazing how much one man took us to freedom, and how close it came to not happening.

I also enjoy Gettysburg and how it explores the various reasons people enlisted and fought, not to mention Jeff Daniels’ portrayal of an amazing colonel.

Thanks to all our veterans!
Kiton 11 Nov 2008 at 6:22 am 4

http://photos.northtemple.com/Vietnam-Reflections.jpeg
Great painting . . .

Thank you Veterans!
USS Benon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:29 am 5

Thanks guys! Y’all make it more than worth it! It was an honor to serve! :^)

Happy Veterans Day!
LPon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:32 am 6

Doug,

while promoting “The Patriot” to the press, Gibson said that the title refered to Ledger’s character, not his.
JohnLockeon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:33 am 7

I was disappointed with “The Patriot”. Should have been called, “The Vendetta,” because Mel Gibson’s character wasn’t a patriot.

I disagree. The point of the film, to me, was Gibson’s journey to patriotism. It was about how he learned from his sons, from the militia, and from the war how to love the concept of freedom so much that he would be willing to die for it. It was there in his last line to Tavington, “My sons were better men.” His sons knew what was at stake, and they were willing to fight and die for it. So in that way, it moved from a revenge film to a patriotic film.
Steve W.on 11 Nov 2008 at 6:34 am 8

Thank you to all veterans and all who serve in our armed forces! Happy Veterans’ Day!

As for “The Patriot,” I understand that it has its fans on this site, but I’m not one of them. The War of Independence deserved much better.
Mashaon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:35 am 9

The Brits came out and said the church torching never happened. Anyone know about this?
Scotton 11 Nov 2008 at 6:36 am 10

To my father,James McLendon(1932-1990),US Army…and my grandfather,Cecil Currie(1906-1972),US Marine Corps
Sharon Fergusonon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:39 am 11

I agree with Doug though - I was disappointed in The Patriot - *that* should have been a Made-For-TV film and The Crossing in the theatres. And if the point were about how his sons were the Patriots, then it should have been Heath Ledger’s character out on those battlefields in the final minutes. I think I was also expecting a more epic sense of storytelling than the goofy moments and the tearjerker moments that the scriptwriters apparently felt they should indulge in to make the story of war more “human.” The romance that ensued was so predictable, I was wanting them to get it over with when it began. I laughed more watching Braveheart than I did over the comedic moments in The Patriot.

And I say all of this as someone who LOVES that period of our nation’s history. I dont think there is ENOUGH films about the colonies and their struggles. I dont think there are enough films that show what those people went through. I just wish Mel Gibson had found better script writers.
Mr Stay Pufton 11 Nov 2008 at 6:43 am 12

How many of you have the day off or have kids with the day off? My kids do. My nephews in VT, don’t.

I just read that Harvard is the only Ivy League school with no classes today.
Mr Stay Pufton 11 Nov 2008 at 6:46 am 13

I’ll bet when Barack Obama Day gets passed, we’ll all get the day off. How about April 1?
Mashaon 11 Nov 2008 at 6:56 am 14

How about April 22nd? Oh wait, it’s taken…
Rather Readon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:02 am 15

My father (89) is a WWII Navy veteran. He took part in the island hopping campaign in the South Pacific and saw kamikaze pilots way up close and personal.
Salon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:08 am 16

Thanks to all veterans!
Love you, Ben!
Matt Helmon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:15 am 17

I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve earmarked December 25 for Obama Day.
Plissken79on 11 Nov 2008 at 7:18 am 18

Good point, Doug, I have gone off on the missed opportunities of The Patriot many times. The Crossing, despite a few stupid lines from screenwriter Howard Fast, is a much better film. That said, The Patriot is still a bit better than the Al Pacino disaster Revolution

DH brought up Tropic Thunder in another post, Alan Alda once made a funny parody of movie-making based around a film on the American Revolution, Sweet Liberty. It is certainly worth checking out
T.S.Benchon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:20 am 19

……The Brits came out and said the church torching never happened. Anyone know about this?…..

There is no record, contemporary or otherwise, of it happening. OTOH, the film is not a documentary.

Regards,
TSB
Stephanieon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:22 am 20

Masha no the church burning did not happen. Tarleton did hang a Continiental officers wife while she was pregnant and had a sign around her neck saying You will bear no more rebels. That was bad enough and could have served well to get Gabriel to chase down Tavington (Historically Banistre Tarleton, Col. Green Dragoons) as well as anything. The Church burniong was way over the top.
The guy who directed the movie, a German named Emmerich had to add the actual SS crime to make it worse………The SS did burn churchs with people locked in them.

Tarleton actually went back to England and served as a pro slave trade MP. If you want to see a good follow up to The Patriot, see Amazing Grace, Ciaran Hindes plays Banister Tarleton and when I realized who he played and the historical link to Revolutionary War in the South I was like COOL! So thats what happened to that jerk.

Anyway love THe Patriot and yes it is about Benjiman Martins journey to becomming a Patriot. The scene people are forgetting is when he picks up the flag and rallies the guys back….he sees the flags ahead of him and then remembers what its all about. Awesome stuff.
Dirty Harry's Momon 11 Nov 2008 at 7:26 am 21

A better movie: We Were Soldiers Once . A better book than a movie, although the movie is excellent adn TRUE–and read the newly issued follow-up by Lt. Gen. Moore and the incredible photographer Galloway.
Chreeson 11 Nov 2008 at 7:55 am 22

Off topic for Vetrans Day… my wife and I watched “Laura” the other evening and as it ends she asks “Why can’t they make movies like that anymore?”

A common lament here and increasingly elsewhere.

On topic for Vetrans Day… my father, who was in the Merchant Marines during WW II, was visiting several years ago. I thought he would enjoy watching “Master and Commander”. He did, up to the point where they bury the casualties at sea and recite the Lord’s Prayer. What I didn’t know at the time but found out later was that he could never hear the Lord’s Prayer without getting choked up after reciting it so many times for fallen friends. And now I can’t hear or recite it without thinking of him.
USS Benon 11 Nov 2008 at 8:05 am 23

Thanks Sal!
I love ya too! You’re a great Patriot!
Hugs!
CrippleHawkon 11 Nov 2008 at 8:11 am 24

1 of my My favoraite war film is “Hamburger Hill” a Vietnam war film. It’s about the brutal battle of Hill 937 that occured in May 1969. Many vets say that is the most realistic film.
Now about my grandaddy

My Grandfather died on veterans day 2 years ago. He was a WW2 vet. He served in the Indian ranch of the RAF in Burma not as a pilot mind you, but as a clerk, Even though he was a clerk they still get attack by Japanese bombers once in a while. He used to tell me that he’d rather take the Japanese bombs than run for cover in the bunkers. He used to say their were snakes in the bunker, big ones such as King Cobras and Pythons. and he was Afraid of snakes ever since. He lost some of his friends to snake bites in the bunkers.
Jack Marinoon 11 Nov 2008 at 8:22 am 25

Todays war films just don’t cut it. Too much of the PC nonsense even in Mel’s two war films. I would suggest if you are going to watch war film, watch the old stuff from Warners and the other studios.

A Walk In The Sun,
Objective Burma
Attack
Hell is for Heroes
The Green Berets
Gettysburg
Bataan
Back To Bataan
Sahara
Patton

To all Veterans out there today, I have a small indie film which I made to honor all the Vietnam Veterans after years from Hollywood spitting on you Heroes in film after film. I made this film back in 1988 finished it in 1990 and because of the politics and my determination not to get raped in the negotiations to close a deal they system made sure my film would never see the light of day.

FORGOTTEN HEROES is an action war drama that honors and show a mission in Vietnam and why we went there. I am selling my film off my web site at www.forgottenheroesthemovie.com this would make a great gift for any of you who love war films and if you have a friend of family member who was in Vietnam. I get great responses from the Vietnam Vets because they see what I was trying to say and a lot of Vets have written me some nice responses to my film.

FORGOTTEN HEROES is a WWII style film in a Vietnam setting, it isn’t shot like the films today with quick cuts, it is a combination of OBJECTIVE BRUMA meets KELLY’S HEROES. The main theme is about providing freedom to our enemies.

Veteran Character actor William Smith(Felconetti) plays Russian General Zelenkov who wants to defect to freedom during the Vietnam War. This little independent film was my third producing effort and my first directing effort. I shot this film with big cast and crew mostly all first timers and my DP was Peter Wolf the only deaf/mute director of photography in the business.

It took me two years to complete the Post and I even got a deal to score the film in Prague for one week. The score sounds like Max Stiener and Buddy Baker and Wil Scheafer of the old Disney music were the guys that did the music for me.

I have been trying to lock down a decent distribution deal since 1990 all the major studios have seen my film (print) some as ten screenings. In the first threes years of going around Hollywood I had over 350 screenings with the studios, mini majors and independents who come and go as companies. I even had to sue a distributor who I made a deal with at the AFM level for foreign rights only and he cost me three years of my life. I won the case and recovered my film, money he stole from me but I couldn’t get work, screenings, nothing for years and years. Before this incident I was dealing with some people from Orion pictures and then new company. At the time they were going to put FORGOTTEN HEROES out in 1000 theaters in 1991. They were setting me up to take my huge video advance in a pyramid scheme of piggy backing films for release and I walked off the deal and my name and film was blackballed for years.

IF more information you can go to my space and read about the movie, see some clips, and read reviews.

www.myspace.com/forgottenheroesthemovie

After twenty years of trying to find funding to get the DVD mastering made I managed to pull that off in 2006 & 07. Today I am selling the DVD through my own HEROES DISTRIBUTION company over the internet.

My Partner and I are donating $5.00 from every DVD to THE AMERICAN VETERANS DISABLED FOR LIFE MEMORIAL FUND If you buy the DVD today from my site there is a comment section when you go through the shopping cart, put down your name here so I will know who you are.

Supporting an independent film like FORGOTTEN HEROES is helping conservative filmmaker who has been shut out completely from Hollywood because I wanted to honor a generation of Vietnam Veterans after I saw Platoon. I won’t walk away from my investors because I gave them my word I would recover their investment back since they threw the money at me so I could go up into the woods and play Andy Hardy and put on a show.

Without your help a film like FORGOTTEN HEROES just dies on the vine and today being Veterans day, this little film, which isn’t a bad little film, is a heartfelt tribute that honors not only our Vietnam vets, but all Veterans who feel that the nation has treated them badly for the sacrifice they made for each and everyone of us. As a independent filmmaker I can’t do any less for these great guys and gals.

Thank you
Jack Marino
Filmmaker
www.forgottenheroesthemovie.com
beartoothon 11 Nov 2008 at 8:33 am 26

As Stephanie says, the real Bloody Ban was bad enough that I can’t see why anyone would need to make up atrocity stories about him. A subtle touch in ‘Amazing grace’ is that nobody ever refers to it, but if you look closely Hinds is missing the finger that Tarleton lost in the war.

There are a couple of moments in “Patriot” that I really liked, but overall I found the film tremendously disappointing. I think it’s a case of knowing, and caring, too much about the period to appreciate what feels like a very generic blockbuster movie.

Other than the Prussian interlude in “Barry Lyndon”, does anyone know of a decent 18th century battle on film ?
Kiton 11 Nov 2008 at 8:47 am 27

Found a great video tribute to the American fighting men and women during world War 2 to the song “I’ll make a man out of you.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjzrfOeUMOA

Includes scenes from BAND OF BROTHERS and PATTON!

Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjzrfOeUMOA
ahem!on 11 Nov 2008 at 8:54 am 28

keni thomas: soldier’s 6-string salute; mission: help wounded, gather heroes
Maxtypeon 11 Nov 2008 at 9:33 am 29

To Veterans and their families,I salute you. Thank YOU for my Freedom.
Lord Jiggyon 11 Nov 2008 at 9:40 am 30

Jeff Daniels in Gettysburg: brilliant, convincing, authentic. Should’ve gotten nominated for best supporting actor, if nothing else. He makes it worth watching the whole film.
Lord Jiggyon 11 Nov 2008 at 9:41 am 31

By the way, you’re welcome. I’m a Vet, 8 years in the Coast Guard, 3 of them as a Rescue Swimmer. Don’t know if that counts today, though, with the people who are really sacrificing and putting themselves in harm’s way (nobody I came in contact with wanted to kill me).
Carolon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:13 am 32

My thanks to all veterans, especially my dad, Charles, who was a Marine during WWII on Iwo Jima.

BTW, Robert Davi was a guest on last night’s “Red Eye” on the Fox News Channel. He talked about THE DUKES and about being a conservative in Hollywood.
John McClainon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:20 am 33

Doug from #3,

It should have been called “Braveheart Meets the British”

Die Hard Fan
Major Grahamon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:29 am 34

As a vet I just want to say “you are all very welcome!”. It is a true honor to serve and defend this great nation of ours.
Supramom2000on 11 Nov 2008 at 10:29 am 35

I add my thanks as well, and accept them as a 17 year veteran.

Major Graham, are you here today?

And absolutely, the Coast Guard counts!!

My kids do not have school - I am in conservative Spokane. But I have a part-time job for a company in Seattle, and they are open today. Not sure about their schools.

When my kids were in elementary school, they asked for any parents who were veterans to please make sure and attend an assembly celebrating veterans. I have not heard of any such events in the high school I will have to look into that further.
NickMon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:31 am 36

Guys: RE: Tarleton; Yes he WAS bad enough…I recall a CSPAN Book TV discussion on a Book that specifically talked about the War of independence in the Southern States. I THINK it was called ‘Rebels & Redcoats’ or something like that; The author of THAT book relayed a letter from a Tory Militiaman who served with Tarleton & moved to Canada after the War–he wrote that they DID pack a church with civilians & set the church on fire at the FAR end of the church….they demanded the civilians denounce the rebels & ‘give them up’;
They kept them in until the fire spread too far & finally the civilians inside agreed to ‘talk’—the Tories THEN let them out however…

Now given Tarleton’s rep for brutality (’Tarleton’s Quarter’ or lack of it thereof), many writers who specialize in Warefare ‘from the time’ are quick to mention that cavalry usually DID work in a swift, brutal way & rarely took prisoners anyways—they were the ‘blitzkrieg’ of their day.
John McClainon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:32 am 37

My uncle was in the navy during WWII. He shot at an incoming Zero, hit it but then the Zero was able to control his plane until he crashed into another US ship. My uncle couldn’t talk about it because of the guilt, my mom told me the story.

Die Hard Fan
Stephanieon 11 Nov 2008 at 10:44 am 38

Look the story about the Church is right out of the Blitz Krieg in Poland. Has about as much to do with the Revolutionary War as Zulu does. THey may have set fire to a church but I doubt they meant to do to the people that the Tavington (Tarleton) dude did. Emmerich just went out of his way in that scene. Hanging Gabriels wife would have set him off and it would have been enough. We all knew the Green Dragoons were well GOONS without setting fire to the Church.
thudon 11 Nov 2008 at 11:16 am 39

Tarleton was and is a popular chap in my home town of liverpool…as a cavalry comander he was quite effective. There are few 18th cent battles on film except for some russian epics on the great northern war and some German films on Frederick the Great.
NickMon 11 Nov 2008 at 11:45 am 40

Stephanie: Point is, in the movie, they let the church burn with the civilians inside; Reality WAS bad enough, in regards to Tarleton’s Dragoons;
wanketteon 11 Nov 2008 at 11:56 am 41

Ooooooh! “The Guns of Navarone” is on TCM at this moment…one of my all-time favorites!
Here’s Gregory Peck to David Niven at the emotional high point of the film. It occurred to me as I mouthed along that this could be delivered to Obambi right now. And should be:

…your bystanding days are over! You’re in it now, up to your *neck*.

The whole speech is Agincourt-worthy.
Stephanieon 11 Nov 2008 at 12:03 pm 42

Of course Tarleton was a hero in Liverpool. But his reputation as Nick points out in the US was less than esteemable. Jason Issacs did an outstanding job as did Hinds. Two different names for in reality the same character.
My fav. Brit character in the Patriot was Tom Wilkenson as Cornwallis….What is done in my name reflects upon me…damn awesome statement.
thudon 11 Nov 2008 at 12:13 pm 43

fusiliers by Mark Urban the latest book on the AWI is a great read…it is a book on how the British army evolved during the war into the force that defeated Napoleon…if you have the time a great read.
Maxtypeon 11 Nov 2008 at 12:38 pm 44

@LordJiggy

Hell yes you count! A CG Rescue Swimmer? Saving lives. The Coast Guard should be proud,always.
Kiton 11 Nov 2008 at 12:48 pm 45

About to watch Thirty Seconds over Tokyo!

I hope its good!
Mr Stay Pufton 11 Nov 2008 at 1:25 pm 46

General Douglas MacArthur said, “No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation.”
Charles Delacroixon 11 Nov 2008 at 1:27 pm 47

Awesome thread. God bless USS Ben, Rather Read’s father, Lord Jiggy ,Carol’s Dad, Major Graham, John McClain’s uncle, and all veterans. Including my Dad, now deceased … he was in Bastogne in the Battle of the Bulge. And never, ever talked about it. Mom said he just once told her that it was hell. Thank God for all those who endured hell so that we can be free today.

I liked The Patriot and We Were Soldiers. Has anyone mentioned The Longest Day? The theme song always puts a lump in my throat, still does. Great movie.

For readings today, I read from Churchill’s WWII memoirs … very moving. Before that, yesterday, I got off work earlyand went to see An American Carol which is still in the dollar theatres around here. For any movies actually in theatres today, my vote would be for this for a good Veteran’s Day tribute flick … if your taste in humor runs to the slightly insane, which mine does. But there’s a scene near the end at the Trace Adkins concert showing soldiers lined up over the years into the Revolutionary past that really brought tears to my eyes.

Happy Veterans Day to all. And to veterans, it’s too small a word, but it’ll just have to do:

*THANKS*

Charles Delacroix
pandaxon 11 Nov 2008 at 2:32 pm 48

When I was 18 I joined the Navy. It was the first time I’d ever been away from my family. It was also the first time that I was given serious responsibilities and expected to perform them. I saw a lot of places and it made me realize how big the world really is. Many people are asked what was the single most pivotal event in your life. For me there is no doubt that serving in the Navy was. Without that I never would have gone into law enforcement and be enjoying a successful career I have now. The fact that knowing I served my country will always be a matter of pride.
Carolynon 11 Nov 2008 at 3:04 pm 49

People - on this Veterans Day, would you please give a prayer that Michael Steele will be appointed the new head of the RNC? In the truest sense of the word, Steele is the soldier who could lead us out of last Tuesday’s valley of despair. (Newt Gingrich was also rumoured to have been lobbying for the position but he has now stepped down - I pray he endorses Steele.)

Steele should have been appointed the head two years ago - he could have revived the party but the RNC was too corrupt and stupid to see that. I do not for one second believe their eyesight is any better today - the only thing they’re seeing is their party in shambles and their pig trough running dry as huge numbers of members desert them. Whatever reason - if it forces them to do the right thing, then that is good enough. Steele’s appointment is crucial. He is charismatic, experienced (former Lt. Gov. of Maryland), articulate and a devout Catholic. He has the power and will to make the RNC what it once was.

Please give a prayer now today - as we remember our brave soldiers - to asking God if He might help another ’soldier’ in his political battle. If Steele is passed over and the old RNC head - Mike Duncan - is allowed to retain his post, we haven’t a prayer of winning in 2010.

Thank you, and God bless.
The Ugly Americanon 11 Nov 2008 at 3:51 pm 50

Have to say that I’m a little more than dissappointed that not one of my industry co-workers has bothered to acknowledge this [link] hanging outside my office door with even a simple utterance of, “thank you”.

Their silence speaks volumns.
Calumet7on 11 Nov 2008 at 4:22 pm 51

“The Patriot” seems to be made for an “international” audience and has absolutely nothing to say about the war it supposedly depicts. It could be enjoyed immensely by a Japanese movie goer (or a typical American student, alas) who barely knows that there was such a thing as the American Revolution.

Why were American colonists justified in taking up arms against their king? The film’s explanation is simple: revenge for atrocities committed by King George’s army during the war. The fact that the British must have done something to alienate the colonists before the shooting actually started is completely ignored — so we don’t have to worry about questions of taxation without representation, Admiralty courts, threats to local self-government, and so forth.

The movie makers apparently assume that the audience has a poor memory, and so Mel Gibson’s loss of a son at the hands of the Tarleton composite isn’t enough — as it would be in most normal action flicks. Instead, new British atrocities are committed at intervals throughout the film — climaxing with the infamous church-burning, thus turning the British into the S.S.

In fact, the screenplay is so crazy over the whole “revenge” issue that even Mel’s French-officer friend is given a revenge motive for fighting the British, even though the film makes it clear that he’s been sent there in an official capacity. Why a professional soldier needs a revenge motive for being at his assigned post is a mystery only Hollywood can unravel.

Viewers of Alan Alda’s “Sweet Liberty,” with Michael Caine playing Tarlton, might think that Alda is actually satirizing “The Patriot” — until they realize that “Sweet Liberty” was made about 15 years before the Gibson film! Alda’s flick even features a director who explains that Tarlton (like the Tarlton character in “The Patriot”) is dressed in red rather than green “because he’s British.”
Jack Marinoon 11 Nov 2008 at 11:32 pm 52

Major, I wanted to thank you and all those here who have served in our military and thank you for protecting all of us from the assholes out there.
Kiton 12 Nov 2008 at 5:07 am 53

Calumet7,

The Patriot was, in my opinion, a fun action flick. If I wan’t a serious drama about the American Revolution, I’ll watch JOHN ADAMS*. Emmerich can do fun action films. He can do big-scale action films very well. Sure, ID4 has its flaws, but it is, overall, a fun film. Jes good, old fashioned fun. Yes, Day After Tomorrow was horrible (okay, the 1st half was fun, but after that it was a snoozefest).

*Never seen THE CROSSING.

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Veterans Day Open Thread

53 Responses to “Veterans Day Open Thread”

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